Featuring Clare Froggatt - Story telling in business through brand design.

Make A Brew and settle in to my chat with Clare Froggatt, Brand Designer at Make A Brew!

Clare shares the inspiration behind her business name and why storytelling in branding is so important. She opens up about her recent personal challenges including her mother's recent diagnosis, and the support she found in her business community. Clare emphasises the importance of humour and acceptance in adversity and offers valuable advice for entrepreneurs facing hardships.

Find out more about Clare and Make A Brew here Home - Do you want to create, build or market your brand - Make a Brew

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Discover more about Elaine Rotherham and Spero Solutions Spero Solutions - Expert knowledge and administrative support

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Chapters

00:16 Introduction to Tales of an Entrepreneur

04:24 Branding and Storytelling in Business

10:51 Navigating Challenges and Personal Growth

15:59 The Impact of Lockdown on Business

20:16 Looking Ahead: Future Aspirations and Changes

22:25 The Importance of Support Networks

25:32 Embracing Vulnerability and Honesty

27:45 Shifts in Work-Life Balance

31:28 Finding Resilience in Adversity

34:27 The Light at the End of the Tunnel

Transcript

Elaine (00:16)

Hi, it's Elaine and this is Tales of an Entrepreneur, where we discover not only what entrepreneurs do, but why they do it. Our stories can be our superpower. So this season, I will delve further into the talent, passion, resilience and determination that often sits behind a successful small business. Life can throw us curveballs, events and experience happen, which shape us and our business. We all face hard times and we will discover what they were,

how they got through it and the knowledge they apply to their highly successful business. So today I'm joined by Clare Froggatt from Make a Brew. Clare has spent over 25 years working in marketing and has a passion for branding. She loves to create, develop and build brands that will make a real difference to her clients businesses. As a self-professed lover of the outdoors,

Clare says she finds inspiration wherever she goes. It's not unheard of for her to be sketching ideas on a napkin while at a coffee shop or recording voice notes on the golf course.

Clare founded her brand agency, Make a Brew, just over five years ago. And I'm really looking forward to find out what was the driving force behind it and why she chose the memorable name for her business. So Clare, welcome. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Clare (01:23)
Hello, my pleasure.

Elaine (01:24)
And so let's kick things off. Why did you choose Make a Brew? I love that name. How did that come about?

Clare (01:31)

crikey. Well, Make a Brew is my third business. we can tell you about the other two if you like before that. I was sitting there decided after a redundancy, is what I suppose the driving force behind this version of the business was and trying to think up a name. And I didn't want it to be my name because I like to do things separately and I'd like to be independent of.

Elaine (01:48)
Yep.

Clare (01:57)

And I was sitting there with my blank piece of paper. As always, I can think of a million ideas for everybody else. But when it comes to mine, I'm such a procrastinator and everything has to be perfect and it has to whatever. So anyway, I'm sitting there and I just said to the dog, let's make a brew. And the dog went nuts. She's always nuts, by the way, she's a springer spaniel, but she went particularly mad at the term make. And I thought, make a brew. I like that.

Elaine (02:12)
Yep.

Clare (02:22)

I was like, well, I do like a brew. It's got to be in a big cup. it's not, you can't fit three handles, three fingers in handle cup's not big enough. Yeah. So went and made a cup of tea, came back, make a brew. thought, actually, in the North of England, that's what we do. When somebody comes to your house or you start a meeting, generally, the first thing you say is about refreshments. Do you want a drink? Do you need a cuppa or whatever, or whatever your terminology is.

Elaine (02:28)
I like that.

Yep.

Clare (02:51)

mine's obviously the Make a Brew, which I am thoroughly a Yorkshire person and I'm firmly planted in the White Rose County. So a lot of people in Lancashire at the other side of the hills use the word brew. But I just thought, no, I like it. That's just me. That's what I use. So that's where the name come from. It's the best way to start a meeting, the best way to start a conversation. And after five o'clock somewhere, a brew comes in a pint pot.

Elaine (03:17)

Absolutely, yes. Yes, it does. And so is there anything that you want to add about your business journey that we haven't included there in your little introduction?

Clare (03:27)

No, you were quite, you were quite good at that. Basically I brought all my 20, pushing eight years of professional experience together. And I think throughout the journey of the business, things have evolved and changed and gone along because I can do a lot of things. I've been around a while and I'm curious and I like to do different things. But just because you can doesn't mean to you should.

Elaine (03:54)
Yes.

Clare (03:55)

my passion's always been branding and ideas. So it's been a dream for a long time to come up with something. How can I sell ideas? Cause you're selling hot air basically, aren't you? So you have to wrap ideas into something else. And I do like branding. like identities and visuals and things. And other people tell me I'm generally quite good at it. you can see I've recently done a job for, let's just say a top level.

Elaine (04:07)
Yeah.

Clare (04:25)

CEO, he'd got a website and a friend of mine said, have a look at this website. I crikey. I said, why does it look like that? We both went, don't know And I went, why is it that colour? He's not that colour. I said, he's, he's blue. And she just went, what do mean? I said, well, does he ever wear that colour? No. Is that a very professional looking colour? No. Is it really?

Elaine (04:26)
Yep.

you

Clare (04:53)

senior guy It was like a pale burgundy red colour. I know that's not him. So I said, it needs to be blue, maybe with that, but a bolder version of that as a, I've treated it like a sofa. Your sofa is blue and the cushions on it are that bright burgundy. That's the balance you need to use. And I like to use everyday normal analogies to explain.

Elaine (04:58)
Yeah.

That's right. Yes.

Clare (05:17)

what I'm thinking in my head that's a contrasting colour in a probably 80/20 ratio. you're like, normal people don't want to hear that. So I like to tell it in a story. And that's done in 10 minutes. That's because that's what my brain goes like that that quickly. And because I can see what it is and know what works and know a little bit about the person. Granted, I did know a little bit about the background of this person as well.

Elaine (05:23)
Yes.

Yeah.

Clare (05:44)
And we'll not mention names so there's no embarrassment or anything about any people have done work before. Cause everybody's got their own opinion and everybody has a different way of thinking and working, which is why there are customers out there for us all. But, ideas I try and wrap into everything that I do. And there'll be something I'm just going to give a little taste of what's coming for 2025. Cause I've had a bit of an epiphany. and it might be how I can.

Elaine (05:49)
Absolutely, yeah.

Okay, interesting.

Clare (06:12)
do things with ideas a little bit more or that'll be the lead on how I promote Make a Brew or the service or it may be called something different.

Elaine (06:22)
okay, watch this space. And so when you talk, you do, yeah, it's out there, there's no going back. And so when you talk about stories, I mean, in my mind, that's kind of what brand development is, is about telling a story. Would you agree?

Clare (06:26)
Indeed. I've said it now, I've got to do it.

Absolutely. I find you come across many logos or brands because the logo is not a brand. A brand is much more than just a logo. But let's say that most people, there's a logo or the first thing that you see related to a business. So there's people and there's vehicles and shopfronts and things like that. But think of McDonald's, the golden arch is the M So that's the logo that you see first.

Elaine (07:02)
Yep.

Clare (07:10)
There should be a story behind it of why it is what it is. think there's a lot of people when they start a business, because this is the side of things that they don't know about. really good at the thing that they do, or they found an idea and they're learning about a lot of things on the journey and they just get a logo or something.

Elaine (07:22)
Yeah.

Clare (07:33)
If it's can mean something or tell a story, you find that you're passionate about it and you're much more happy about talking about it and introducing it to people. It's easier to introduce yourself or introduce the business and what it does at networking events or to talk about it online or to position it or to attract the right customer. Cause not everybody's your customer. I mentioned that a little bit earlier.

Elaine (07:56)
Yeah.

Clare (07:56)
there's

different people for different service providers or different shops and things like, for example, we drive different cars and some people might just drive a car because they want to get from A to B and they don't care what it looks like or how big it is or whatever. And then there's certain people who drive a certain make a model vehicle or a certain colour or they won't drive a certain colour. And that's similar in business. You get people that I'm not going to be everybody's cup of tea. I might be a bit too Tigger a bit too giddy for people.

Elaine (08:19)
Yep.

Clare (08:25)
I'm quite blunt but I try to wrap it in a nicety and I always give a reason. Like sometimes a client will say they want something a certain way and I'll say, no, but this is why. Rather than, you're not having that or that won't work. You're trying to educate them and explain to them and if possible, try and include what they want or their idea into something that will work. And an example I always use on that one is.

Elaine (08:35)
Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Clare (08:51)
working with a funeral director some years ago now and they wanted their branding to look red and I was like, God, no. And most people, when I say that first sentence, there's a look of shock. So as people in everyday life, we wouldn't expect a funeral director's signage or the front of it or their identity to be red. However, there are lots of different shades of red. So most people, when you say red, go pillar box red.

Elaine (08:57)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

Clare (09:18)
or London bus or the old phone boxes. Yes, I am that old. But a red wine, a Merlot red or a Burgundy red or something a little bit more the word regal or something looking like that, kind of red would work. again, go back to the seatee analogy, if it was used sparingly and in the right places, then it would look quite classy and

Elaine (09:39)
Yes.

Clare (09:47)
supportive and all those things that most funeral directors would want their image to present. but...

Elaine (09:54)
Yep.

Clare (09:56)
You've got to speak in a language or in a way that most people can understand or they can find interesting. that's why I like about dealing either face to face with somebody or where video comes in, because you get to see somebody's expression and you get to know whether they've got a question or they're frowning and their facial expressions tell you that they understand something.

or that they like something or where they're coming from. And I feel that my job is also to read people and read things like that.

Elaine (10:22)
Yeah, absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. And so you talk about stories and that leads us quite nicely into the next question. So this podcast is all about people's stories and the twists and turns that life throws at us and how we end up where we are today and what we can offer the world because of it. So do you want to explain to us about your journey or anything significant that happened on the way that kind of shaped what you do and how you do it?

Clare (10:52)
Well, we'll just keep it in recent history, I think, because that could go on forever. So if anybody wants to know more, talk, book a brew and I'll tell you happily. I'm quite an open book. But I would say in the last probably two years, so Make a Brew is six next March. So you were writing saying it's just over five. So we're coming up to being six. And I would say a year into the business, we had lockdown, which impacted a lot of people in a lot of ways. But I think for me,

Elaine (10:54)
Okay.

Absolutely.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Clare (11:20)
It was a positive thing in terms of the business because I thought my business was firmly rooted in South Yorkshire. And within a couple of hours radius of I thought that's where I could significantly help people and where I could serve people with what I do. Then comes lockdown and actually my glass ceiling was shattered because I've worked with customers that I've never met before. Some I've never seen before. Cause a lot of people

Elaine (11:46)
Yeah.

Clare (11:48)
don't like video and whatever, they pick the phone up or do an email or a text message or whatever. And I've got clients on the South coast down in Plymouth, London, Birmingham, Derby, Scotland, Canada, America, you name it, they're everywhere. So lockdown just taught me or gave me the lesson of have internet, can work anywhere.

Elaine (12:10)
Absolutely,

Clare (12:11)
So I think that then coming out of lockdown and thinking about change and I think it changed the world in a lot of senses. It pushed a lot of sectors and industries forward, leaps and bounds quicker. I think it changed us and I speak generally in terms of us as consumers. I think it accelerated the, want this and I want it now because we've got Netflix. I can watch what I want when I want. I can order food.

Elaine (12:21)
It really did, yes.

Mm-hmm.

Clare (12:40)
So we are a consumer driven.

people, if you like. So I think, what, what, how can we as business owners do that as well? It's, it's how can you preempt what people want? When are they going to want it? And I think the clearer you are on your, who you want to work with and the kind of people. So who is, who your customers are and the kind of people I think is a value match and what your values are. And there's things that matter to me and things that matter to you.


Elaine (12:47)
Yes.

Clare (13:12)
And I think if you find your tribe or find your people, and that goes for people that you network with, that you are friends with, that you spend your time with, and that you work with, it makes the whole experience a hell of a lot simpler and easier because you're coming from things at the same angle,

So basically, yes, we had COVID, the world changed. And then a little bit more closer to home, my world changed and it started off, my stepdad had passed away and he'd been ill. So it wasn't a surprise, but it was a shock at the time. And I think that was the catalyst because my mum's got Alzheimer's.

Elaine (13:31)
yes, we had COVID and the world changed, yeah, the world changed, yeah.

Yeah.

Clare (13:55)
I think the passing of my dad was the catalyst for that coming. And that's been taken up pretty much the last 18 months. So I think my ability to be as creative and to think clearly has been a little bit hindered by that. And just an acceptance really, think acceptance is a huge thing in any either trauma or troubling time you're going through

Elaine (14:11)
Yeah.

Clare (14:21)
if there's nothing you can do about it, then there isn't. So try to worry less about what you can't do anything about and focus on what you can do something about. So I think it made me sort of step back and question a little bit. Why am I here? What am doing? What am I doing it for? Which is really challenging when you're a sole trader and running your own business, because you've still got to be.

Elaine (14:31)
Absolutely.

Clare (14:45)
the business and still to do work and in my line of work, you've still got to be creative when you really feel about as creative as a brick. So I think that's mean a little bit of a slow down in the way that I think I would normally progress things What did it teach me? I think.

Elaine (14:46)
Yes.

Clare (15:05)
more patience, the things that are in life that can't control, a lot of realisation that I think there's a lot of people that have been at this point where I'm at now, and you come to a point when you're either parenting your parents, so that realisation is probably the first one to accept. And then the fact that it's a journey. mean, if I had the power to wipe

Elaine (15:18)
Yeah.

Clare (15:31)
one thing off the face of the earth, will be Alzheimer's and dementia because it is just a vile thing. The person that's suffering it doesn't really understand what's happening and can't comprehend it. It's more the people around them that see the decline basically. I'm grieving for my mum. She's dying a little piece at a time. I'm much stronger now because I can say that without needing a box of tissues and things. again, it's a journey and I'm expecting to.

Elaine (15:48)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Clare (16:00)
I'm running the hurdles, the hurdles are at head high and I don't know when they're coming. So there's going to be something else that comes and wallops me and puts me back. all we're doing is giving moments. So if you can see that she's happy and she's loved and she's cared for, fantastic, that's all we can do. But the value in that to make her feel like that is great.

Elaine (16:17)
Yeah.

Clare (16:23)
we've come through a journey and I've had to learn how to do lasting powers of attorney and all different things like that. So if there's, if there's anybody else listening to this podcast that's, that's running a business or not, and you're going through this or starting this journey with some loved one of yours, then by all means reach out. I'm more than happy to listen.

Elaine (16:27)
Yeah.

Clare (16:43)
share what I've done

Anyway, that's my bumps in the road over the last 18 months, and they'll still continue being a bit lumpy. I'm sure they will. But I think in this last year, I had some personal issues with my health as well, which kind of hindered me. And I'm quite happy to ask for help in business if I'm struggling with something or need something doing. But I don't think I'm one of these people that asks for help personally. And I found that a really hard lesson to learn when you're

Elaine (17:03)
Yeah.

Clare (17:14)
you're basically off your feet and you can't do anything. So I need my dog looked after and walked and whatever, I'm basically mum's guardian and what's happening there. But I think beneficially because of my situation, we managed to get mum help quicker because a lot of people, it takes one to two years to get a diagnosis. And then you're lucky if you get a social worker that has got the capacity to help you and do what you need.

Elaine (17:30)
Yep.

Clare (17:41)
It's a really difficult job and I don't think I could do it so there's no judgment there on anybody that does. But the caseloads they have for the different people they need to help and it's all about funding and places and unfortunately we live in a country where there's an ageing population and a lot more people needing the services. But we managed to get mum diagnosed, paid for it privately to get a diagnosis because that's the first thing that sped it up and then getting her some support was because I was unable to help her.

Elaine (17:58)
There is...

Clare (18:09)
So I think I've had a bit of a reality check on the fact, no, I'm not Wonder Woman as much as I'd like to be. And sometimes I do need help and we all do. And I'm the first person that offers help to other people. But when you have to ask for it yourself, it's really difficult lesson to learn.

Elaine (18:25)
Absolutely, what's

that saying go is that our body keeps the score. So yeah, we might in our heads think we can conquer all but our bodies will tell us different.

Clare (18:30)
Yeah.

Yeah, again,

no, and I think part of your body as well is your mental health. Because whilst I did have it, personally, I had a physical setback last year. It was something to do with my foot. So I couldn't walk the dog and I couldn't play golf. And that made me discover that actually.

Elaine (18:39)
Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

Clare (18:54)
I need the outdoors. I need to walk. I need to play golf. It's not just an exercise thing. It helps my mental health as well as exercise. Cause when you've walked up our eighth hole,

Elaine (19:02)
yet.

Clare (19:07)
you know about it, it's big steep hill. And it's my social life as well, it's the people I spend time with and I couldn't do that for six months and at the time when we were going through all the trauma with mum, actually not being able to do that. So I had to find other ways of, let's say coping. So I don't think I got me back until the summer of this year when I could actually get out and play out, I call it.

Elaine (19:19)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Clare (19:35)
when I could play out again and when I could walk my dog myself and when I could play golf again and do all of that stuff and seek some help. I have seen somebody for counselling and I call them happy pills. So they do keep things on a bit of an even keel. So sometimes we all do need a little bit of help there. And I think if, I think I'm me again. I think I'm more me, but I think

Elaine (19:50)
Absolutely. we couldn't agree more.

Good.

Clare (20:00)
a little bit wiser, definitely a bit older. And I think learning that actually you can have some help and maybe the way that my business has been running or I thought it was running for the last four or five years leading up to now doesn't have to be the way it continues. So I'm looking to make some changes, but I love what I do. I think there's going to be some.

Elaine (20:17)
No.

Clare (20:25)
shifting the balance of how much I do that and how much I do something else, still relative. And that's that I'm quite, it's first time I've been excited about my business for quite a few years now, I think I've been like sort of on hamster wheel.

Elaine (20:30)
Yeah.

Clare (20:43)
of being a business owner and anybody that is knows that there's ups and downs and people go, if you run a business, you can do what you want. Yeah, but I also think when there's no work, I'm going to pay my bills.

I love business. I love learning about other people's businesses. I love hearing other people's stories and what they've done and how they get there. And it's just really interests me. I think everybody can have tough times. Know that if you're going through a tough time, there's other people out there that are, they might not be the same, or they'll certainly feel differently because we're not all the same. But a little bit of understanding and kindness goes a long way.

And just that offer that it's okay not to be okay. And there's support out there when you need it. And just having a really good network around you, can't, as well as family, I'm talking more on the business side because of the nature of this podcast, but I think, I think you can have some really good friends in business as well as you've got acquaintances and people that you work with and see and talk to, but there's a few people that,

Elaine (21:27)
Absolutely.

Yeah.

Clare (21:49)
that are a bit closer to you. And I think they're the ones that can understand because sometimes your family can't understand what it's like to run a business because it's a totally different thing. Indeed.

Elaine (21:56)
No, no, it's a very unique experience, isn't it? It can't be anywhere very unique,

yeah. And so that leads us quite nicely onto the next question, Clare. So you mentioned there about having friends in business. So you've been through, you know, a really, really tough few years and you've learned quite a lot and you've had these epiphany moments, which I think we do when we go through something so life-changing, yeah. You kind of have to find meaning and purpose in it all, don't you?

But who were the people that stood out when you started taking those first steps back towards you again with, you know, what kind of support did you receive and who were they and what do they look like?

Clare (22:37)
I think, I think generally clients and people I was working with, I've been quite open about what's been going on. I don't feel shame about changing appointments and canceling things because two years ago I would never change an appointment once you make an appointment with me, that's it, that stands. I'd have to lose my leg to not come. But actually when other things come and I've heard quite a lot.

Elaine (22:45)
Yeah.

Yeah.

You

Clare (23:05)
people's responses, his family comes first. So that's been a general support all around. I think I've had to go through a stage until I knew what I wanted and knew what help I wanted, then I won't ask for it. Because if my answers are, if you can't help yourself first or start to help yourself first, I don't think you can really get the right help back.

Elaine (23:33)
Yeah, yeah.

Clare (23:33)
So that's

how I work anyway. So I've had the growth community, the networking that we do, there's been several people within that that I've spoken to in detail about what's going on. My accountant, Michael Hall, is absolutely awesome. He knows everything inside out, upside down, back to front about the financial side, but possibly not as much about the mental side struggle.

Elaine (24:03)
Yeah.

Clare (24:03)
But

I could talk to him if I did. Claire Taylor Foster's my business bestie and she's always there no matter what. We do the work together as well as network together and I know I can ask her anything at any point in time, ditto she can and I helped her out yesterday actually because she'd left her phone at home which meant she couldn't open her gates to get in the house. So I got visions of two middle-aged women trying to climb over a wall and a gate to get into Claire's house.

Elaine (24:18)
Yeah.

No!

I hope yeah.

Clare (24:32)
Didn't happen, rang a daughter. I rang a daughter because I've got her number as well. So yeah, I'll just share that with everybody. If you can picture,

yeah, I play golf. I don't climb over walls. So yeah, I think you've got people like that yourself. We've had, you've had a journey yourself and when you were first going into that, you probably received a little bit of what I have that people understanding and said, look, go do what you need to do. I've had that back now.

Elaine (24:42)
you

I have, yes.

Clare (25:02)
Go do what you need to do, come back to me when you're Financially, the business has taken hit from it, but I'm still here. I'm still vertical and still breathing, which is what my late grandfather's, one of his, if you're right, granddad, and it's vertical and breathing. So I've been using that a lot lately. And if it's a positive start, if you're vertical and breathing, you're winning already.

Elaine (25:09)
Yeah, yes you are.

Could be worse.

Absolutely.

Clare (25:29)
And

then anything else is a bonus.

Most people know that my mum's got Alzheimer's. I don't hide that fact. There needs to be more awareness about that disease and the impact it has on the people around. And it's really funny that the amount of people that I have said it to, they've had somebody the same or they've come across somebody that's had that. Or even people that going through a different thing where it's either a loss or a grief or something, because it doesn't have to be specifically that. And I just think...

Elaine (25:38)
Absolutely.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah.

Clare (26:01)
You can't always sort things out on your own and in solitude, you need people around you. I think, always think honesty is the best policy in business, whether things are going good or bad. think if you make a mistake or whether the mistakes not your fault, if you're the one that's dealing with it, if you pick the phone up, don't do it on an email, don't do it on a text, pick the phone up or at least try to make an appointment for a phone call or an in-person visit and speak to people.

Elaine (26:12)
Yeah.

Clare (26:27)
again, it's an, it's all about acceptance, I think.

And just, just move forward and yeah, just, just being a little bit more, like I say, kind and accepting and moving on and kind to yourself.

Elaine (26:31)
So it's evolving and adapting, yeah. Yeah.

Clare (26:40)
I just think that a bit of honesty, not entirely honesty, not where you do it, either good or bad or when you make a mistake or when you need some help, you've got to go to somebody because if you don't tell somebody what's going on, they'll make assumptions and fill the gaps in themselves.

Elaine (26:59)
Yeah,

yeah they will. No it isn't, you're right, you're right. And so you mentioned about the support that you've had from clients and colleagues and in the network and I have to agree if you're there I think the Yorkshire Business Network is a very very special one. Just all the businesses that are around us in the surrounding areas it's a really very unique thing to be part of.

Clare (27:01)
and that's never a good thing.

Elaine (27:27)
It's very, very supportive, but how is, how is what you've been through over the last few years and like these light bulb moments, how has that made you different in your working life and how you run your business? Have you had some big shifts and big changes in that?

Clare (27:45)
think the major change on reflection is that I've always been a bit of a workaholic. Is there such thing as a bit? Because I love what I do. I think it's made me a bit more relaxed and a bit more, to quote Claire Taylor again, it's like the Claire Taylor appreciation podcast, but she is a wise one. And she's always said to me that

Elaine (27:54)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes it is, yes it is if you're listening Clare.

Clare (28:14)
things will happen and things will come in time. But I've always been a, I suppose you could describe it as a bit of a hustler. And I mean, working hard hustler And I think this experience has taught me just to relax a bit. And actually now I understand what Clare meant or

Elaine (28:27)
Yeah.

Clare (28:32)
Now I know how to do it. It's like that being kind, just, I'm being kind to myself and know people who know be kind for you. And what does that mean? What does be kind to yourself mean? And I think it's different to everybody.

Elaine (28:34)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Clare (28:46)
I think what's been, it's made me laugh actually, because now I've got this sort of relaxed bit of approach and I feel more like me.

Work's just coming. It's like, great. Why didn't I fly this before? And you're like, don't ask why for that, just enjoy it. And I think

Elaine (28:59)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Clare (29:09)
certainly the experiences with my health was to stop me in my tracks and make me think differently. I would never have asked for what I've dealt with with mum, but they say that you don't get what you can't deal with. And believe me, I've asked that question. I've asked why a lot in a lot of dark nights and whatever, and moments of needing a bucket for tears because there's not enough tissues.

Elaine (29:22)
Yes, I've heard that saying as well. Me too.

Yeah.

Clare (29:35)
But also you've got to let those emotions, you've got to let anger out, you've got to let tears out, you can't hold emotions in. Now you might do this privately, but unfortunately I'm one of those people that, you know that question that just unraveled, you put your mask on and you go out there and you think you're, you think, right I'm good today and somebody goes are you all right? And you go, game over, I can't. I wear my heart on my sleeve, in fact it's tattooed at the top of my left arm.

Elaine (29:50)
Are you okay?

No! Yes.

Clare (30:04)
So I do wear my heart my sleeve and I can't hide if I'm feeling sad or upset or whatever, and I've been sat in various different coffee shops of kind and people have asked me that question and I...

But I think we're all different, we're all who we are.

Some people are much more private, but if you are private, make sure you've got people around you that you can talk to that can support you. And if like me, you're walking like visual, this is how I'm feeling or whatever, or you'll find people that really know you, they'll just go, what's wrong then? I'm fine. Like, no, I can see behind that. But I think, yeah, let's say it's.

Elaine (30:44)
Yes. Yes.

Clare (30:51)
I think you've got to try and find the positives in every experience, but sometimes it takes longer or it's harder to see them

Elaine (30:58)
Yes.

Clare (30:59)
think I now have an ambitious lifestyle business because this is going to fit in with my lifestyle. ain't going to fit in with churning away and sitting at the desk for 15 hours a day and working and doing it. It's going to be like, yeah, I'll play golf next Wednesday. So I'm having another day off next Wednesday, but I'll probably do a bit of work on Saturday or Sunday. And mum needs me.

Elaine (31:16)
See ya.

And even though you've got there in the most

awful way possible, it's a pretty special gift to be, to give yourself, isn't it?

Clare (31:28)
I think so. I'm appreciating it now, I think. And that's all right to do that. It's like I've cancelled an appointment next week because I've got to do something for mum and I'm like, well, I'm doing it because she comes first. And I come second.

Elaine (31:32)
I think so.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, she does.

Family comes first, absolutely. Couldn't agree more. And so would you say that, so I think a lot of times we doubt ourselves, don't we? We doubt what we're capable of achieving or doing. Would you say that you surprised yourself in your resilience? Have been able to just pick yourself back up when you've been at the lowest?

Clare (32:06)
I think in this instance, yeah, I think I've been through other things in life and I've bounced back, I'm still here, aren't I? I'm still doing what I do. I think this one's been particularly tough with it being who it is and the timing of it.

Elaine (32:17)
Yes.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Clare (32:29)
So I think the resilience is only just, I'm only just appreciating that now.

Elaine (32:37)
Yeah.

video.

Clare (32:43)
that's that button. No, you're good, you're good. I think that, again, the realism of this, I still find it hard for people, that other people say that to me. I'm just here, I've done it. Survive, I say surviving, surviving, but...

Elaine (32:45)
Do you want to take a minute?

You're okay? Alright.

Yeah.

Surviving, yes.

Clare (33:13)
But I think...

Elaine (33:13)
Yeah.

Clare (33:17)
I've also realised that whilst I like praise or work-wise or you've done a great job, I can handle a great job. I think when it's something personal, when somebody comments on either my resilience or... Yeah, I've done a pretty damn good job with learning all this stuff that's legal and binding and clearing mum's flat and possessions and doing all things like that.

Elaine (33:29)
Yeah.

Clare (33:46)
Yeah, I am pretty proud of myself, but when somebody else says it to me, it's like, hmm, okay. I don't quite know how to deal with that.

Elaine (33:50)
I know and and having an injury and running a business and

I know you have done an incredible job Clare you should feel proud of yourself you should and so everything you've learned all these epiphany moments that you've had especially over recent years and all that knowledge you've gained what is the one piece of advice that you'd give

Clare (34:00)
Thank you.

crikey.

Uhhh...

I no matter what the, let's call it trauma, is that you are going through a feeling at the moment.

There is always an end. There is always a light at the end of the tunnel. And sometimes that place is not always as bad as you thought it was going to be. At the time, very difficult to see. But all you've got to do, like I say, every day, vertical and breathing, and just keep going. It might take a minute, a day, a week, a month, a year, whatever. It'll be on your own time frame.

Elaine (34:43)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Clare (35:08)
you will get through it because we do. We are amazing human beings and you've just got to have your moments, wallow for a little bit but don't keep, don't stay in that pond like a hippopotamus, that's not good. You wouldn't look good doing with soggy skin, you? But I think something that we Brits always do is find a humour in things as well.

Elaine (35:10)
Yeah.

Yes.

Now you are in.

Yes.

Clare (35:38)
I think once you can find the humour in your own circumstance, you know you're coping with it.

Elaine (35:45)
Yeah, yeah, just keep going. Simple but powerful.

Clare (35:51)
Yeah, just keep swimming like Dory says.

Elaine (35:53)
Just keep swimming.

I was actually singing that in my head when I was singing it. Yes. Thank you so much, Clare. Honestly, it's been an absolute privilege having you on and hearing your story. And thank you so much for sharing it with us. And I'm sure it will definitely help a good few people out there that choose to listen to it. Thank you so much.

Clare (35:57)
Hahaha!

My pleasure.

hope it does. My pleasure.